In this episode, we’re joined by Massimo Arrigoni, CEO of Beefree, the content creation platform behind thousands of SaaS products and one of the companies with a uniquely broad view of what’s actually happening across the software landscape. With customers embedding Beefree into products across industries, Massimo sees the SaaS market from the inside out.

And his take is clear: SaaS is not dead. But parts of the model are being challenged, valuations are being reset, and AI is forcing every company to rethink where real value lives. This is a conversation about what is actually changing, what is not, and why the future likely belongs to companies that understand the difference.

We spoke with Massimo about why people often mix up SaaS valuations, SaaS delivery, and SaaS business models when they talk about “the death of SaaS.” He explains why software sold to non-technical businesses is far less vulnerable than some people think, why “just build it yourself” is often a misleading argument, and why the real opportunity with AI is not replacing humans, but giving them back a better version of their jobs.

Here are some of the key questions we address:

• Is SaaS actually dying, or are we just seeing a market correction?
• Why are people confusing valuation resets with a broken business model?
• What parts of SaaS are most exposed to change, and which parts remain highly defensible?
• Why is “companies will just build it themselves” often the wrong assumption?
• What do you learn about the future of software when your product is embedded in thousands of SaaS applications?
• How are SaaS companies actually approaching AI right now: innovating, reacting, or just sprinkling it on?
• What kinds of products and use cases are most likely to stay sticky in an AI-first world?
• Why should leaders think of AI as something that may take your job and give you back a better one?
• What happens to entry-level jobs, and what should the next generation prepare for?

🎧 Tune in to hear Massimo’s thoughtful and grounded take on the future of software: SaaS isn’t disappearing, but the rules are changing fast. The winners will be the companies that understand where the real headaches still are, where humans still matter, and where AI can genuinely create leverage instead of just noise.

In this episode, we’re joined by Jens Levin, Founder & CEO of Sitoo, the retail SaaS platform powering in-store experiences for leading brands across the world. Today, Sitoo has 20M Euro in ARR, 40%+ growth, 300+ retailers, and deployments across 40+ countries.

But this is not a story about overnight success. Jens shares the reality behind building a company over 22 years, including 10 years of work before finding the real breakthrough. It’s a conversation about longevity, resilience, and why SaaS is not a sprint, but a long-distance team sport where focus and trust increase your chances of success.

We spoke with Jens about what changed when Sitoo found its “Holy Grail,” why saying no became more important than saying yes, and how the company evolved from founder-led hustle into a scalable global SaaS business.

Here are some of the key questions we address:

• Why did it take 10 years for Sitoo to find true product-market fit?
• What changed when the company went all-in on one product and one focus area?
• Why does saying yes to everything keep you local, while focus helps you scale globally?
• How do you build a strong partner ecosystem without becoming a competitor?
• What happens when you scale from 3 people to 135+ employees?
• Why do so many SaaS companies hit a major shift around 80–100 employees?
• How do you move from founder-driven heroics to a scalable operating model?
• How do you keep motivation, culture, and momentum alive over two decades of building?

🎧 Tune in to hear Jens’ honest take on what it really takes to build something lasting: there is no overnight success, only years of iteration, the right people around you, and the discipline to stay focused long enough for the flywheel to start turning.

In this episode, we’re joined by Elena Verna, growth expert and currently leading growth at Lovable, one of the fastest-growing companies in tech. Elena shares why the old growth playbooks are breaking down, what growth means in an AI-native world, and why companies can no longer rely on features alone as their competitive advantage.

We talk about how growth has shifted from pure funnel optimization to trust, speed, and human connection. Elena breaks down the difference between growth loops and funnels, why Lovable products need to feel alive and constantly evolving, and what companies in crowded categories must do if they want to stay relevant when software is easier than ever to copy or rebuild.

Here are some of the key questions we address:

• What does growth actually mean in an AI-native company like Lovable?
• Why are traditional growth playbooks becoming less effective in today’s market?
• Why can features no longer be your only competitive advantage?
• How should companies think about retention, expansion, and resurrecting users in this new environment?
• What can B2B SaaS companies in crowded categories do to become more lovable and trusted?
• Why does speed to market matter more than perfection right now?
• How do you build teams that can operate in a world where AI changes customer expectations every month?
• What does Elena look for when hiring people into a fast-moving AI company?

🎧 Tune in to hear Elena’s take on modern growth, why trust and humanity matter more than ever, and how companies can rethink distribution, retention, and defensibility in a world where software is no longer hard to build.